I agree, it looks like the DNC has been a huge success for Obama and co, and the RNC fizzled because the hurricane was over-hyped. Palin is getting a lot of bad press, just or not.

If Palin withdraws from the race, the GOP is out of the race for sure.

Again, there is my complaint... people want to flock to Obama because there is "less chance" that he will throw us into a war. He's already made statements about putting troops into new countries (Pakistan, maybe?) and unilaterally supporting Israel (which will put us in conflict with someone, no doubt).

FYI Clinton got to ride out the economic wave of his predecessors. We dipped into a recession around the end of his second term. Besides, I hate it when people complain about the economy to the government. Just because you spent all your money on stuff you didn't need, and are now broke, doesn't mean it is the governments fault. Looking to them for answers only justifies them taxing you more (since you don't know how to control your own money, after all) and then using it to patch what they deem necessary (which is usually based more on public opinion and political benefit more than true social and economic benefit).

If anyone REALLY doesn't want to vote for a major party candidate, why don't you just vote for a third party that aligns closer to what you believe. Sure, they won't win this year... but at least politicians will see a growing need that they should address.

I'm still trying to figure out something though. We seem to be heading towards electing a person that has accomplished nothing with any position he's ever held, except to move on to another position... and to write two books... about himself... solely because he is charismatic... and tells you what you want to hear... why?

"just because you spent all your money on stuff you didn't need, and are now broke, doesn't mean its the government's fault". Spoken like a true Republican who has no concept of the millions of people who are struggling to get by. And I actually personally don't favor tax cuts, because I know how much the different social services would suffer if that were to happen. Probably because I have compassion, which isn't a concept that Republicans are familiar with.

The thing is, about him "not accomplishing anything with the positions he's held"...well, have we not been disappointed extensively by those who HAVE, too? And who are you to say he hasn't accomplished anything? Are you just repeating media rhetoric? As long as he was present at least as often as required of him, voted, and represented the people, he was at least doing his job. What, were you expecting a cure for cancer and an end to war?

"just because you spent all your money on stuff you dont need" do you have any idea how insulting that is? Any concept at all? I mean, I knew before that Republicans had no concept of the lower class struggle, but seriously.

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 12:37 PM by Holly.

First off let me say I'm not affiliated with any party, rather I choose to be argumentative.

Maybe I'm a bad person or I've seen/heard too much bad, but I agree. Why should tax payers pay for other people's mistakes? Guess I lack that compassion you speak of.

What experience does Obama have? Obama's party attacking Palin sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black (no pun intended).

It's not that. It's that income inequality is the highest it's been since the 1920s, it's GDP growth at its lowest in decades, the fewest new jobs over an 8 year period, it's also about how the average salary has decreased $1,000 since the year 2000, PLUS fighting against inflation, that's what makes it harder for the average middle class American to live. It's not picking up for over spenders. I know people who are living with very little, and still suffering to get by. It's not as simple as overspending idiots, that's the smug attitude that I dislike about the Republicans.

The fact is, disregard experience for a moment.

McCain has experience voting on the wrong side, with Bush.

Obama has a plan that economic analysts support, claiming it will be 3x better for the middle class than McCain's. That's why I like Obama.

Yeah, you guys really do lack any compassion. How old are you? Do you live on your own? Have you done so very long? People are disadvantaged and you're basically like "Oh well, it ain't me. Sucks to be them. It must be all their fault"? How about this: if you're not compassionate enough to support taxes and social services for less advantaged, perhaps you can be selfish enough to realize that helping others in the end helps you. Poverty breeds criminals, criminals bring taxes in the forms of more prisons, more government workers on the payroll, and increased police spending.

My Republican, Christian parents kicked me out several times from the age of sixteen to eighteen. However, despite the rather trivial moral decision that led to their disapproval of me, I owned up to the responsibility. There I was, at eighteen, holding down a job, trying to graduate with all my honors and high grades intact, and still pay rent. I also have fibromyalga and a host of other health problems, and inhibited mobility. I am legally disabled, but have worked all my life anyway. I don't even accept the disabled parking.

I'm sorry, I fail to see how in that situation I was some kind of irresponsible or free spending person. But I needed help. And I got it. Do I deserve to be punished for other people's mistakes either?

You people act like everyone who doesn't have money, simply spent all they had. Do you have any concept of people who are stuck in a rough situation that they neither created nor could easily get out of? Jesus Christ. Just because you've had it good doesn't mean you need to trash on those who weren't given any opportunities to succeed. My parents, DESPITE my serious illnesses, never gave me a damn thing. I was homeless before I was even an adult. Are you going to tell me that its my fault, and that if I hadn't spent all my cash, that I would have been in a better situation? That's just rude and closeminded elitism, pure and simple. No wonder you don't have any compassion. I knew this site was full of spoiled children, but geez. Maybe being 24 IS too old to be here at Wiiloaded.

And let's get down to it. Up until she ran for office in 1996, Palin was part of a group that wanted Alaska to secede from the United States.

Say what you will about Obama, but at least he's never made a concerted effort to make his homestate a seperate country. Some patriot she is.

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 01:57 PM by Holly.

No, McCain's campaign contiously blasted Obama for not having experience, but then they choose a VP who has no experience, and the chances of McCain kicking the bucket simply due to his age if elected president is likely.

Cindy McCain says that Palin has tons of national security experience because Alaska is so close to Russia....

Cause he pokes holes in the air with his finger? Obama makes a lot of claims, but fails in the planning. This isn't a knock on Obama, it's a knock on politicians in general. At this point I don't see the US prospering under either candidate, and until something changes it's going to be choosing the lesser of two evils or abstaining.

Crap, I've argued with you before on similar issues. (This could get ugly) You can't say your parents "never gave you a damn thing"; it's just not true. Your parents gave you life and apparently a little more as you managed to live long enough to fend for yourself (food, shelter, clothes, education, etc.). I don't know what you did to earn your parents spite, but it really doesn't matter. Based on your statement "My Republican, Christian parents kicked me out several times from the age of sixteen to eighteen.” I can infer they had some level of compassion or obligation, as they apparently took you back several times.

You should learn to not make wild assumptions about people you don't know. All I know about you is you like to proclaim your short-comings, and you apparently do ok for yourself (you have a video game console(s), games, place of your own, possibly your own computer and internet access). If you're still living in poverty your priorities are messed up and my original statement applies. All the help is available to those who want/need it, they just need to make the effort to use it.

Compassion, 'cause they took me back?  Hardly. It took the careful pointing out that it was technically illegal to throw me out before the age of 18. Still did it three times anyway. When I turned 18 it was for good. Sure, they kept my alive. They were legally obligated to do that, too. They didn't give me what parents should--love support guidance attention, any of those things. They did as much as they were legally obligated to. And life hasn't exactly been fun and I didn't ask to be born, so no, I'm not about to feel grateful for anything they supposedly did for me.


And no, I'm not still living in poverty. I worked hard and got out of it, but it wasn't alone. That "help" you speak of that is so available to those who reach out? Guess who pays for it? TAXPAYERS. Guess who lobbies for it? DEMOCRATS! Guess who hate it? Republicans! I had NO ONE to help me, no family or anyone, but eh, at least I was fed, 'cause I got food stamps.

YOU should learn to not make wild assumptions about people you do not know. You're the pot calling the kettle black. The wild assumptions YOU are making, is that everyone who needs financial help is somehow completely to blame and irresponsible.

And no, I do not like to "proclaim my shortcomings" in fact, I have many friends and past employers who were not aware of my illness because I chose to not disclose it. I chose to in this example, and on ONE other occasion on this board, because it was relevant to the point I was making, and because I did not feel that here of all places, that I would be judged for it. My apologies for letting my guard down. You're speaking to a woman who spent three summers building churches in Mexico and working the hardest out of the entire group, and not once breathing a word of my physical difficulties. I finally started to think maybe I didn't have to hide anymore, but I guess I was wrong. Even those with physical limitations are not immune to being ripped apart for it, so it seems.

It doesn't take knowing much of anything about you to know you are rude, self righteous, callous, condescending and so completely self centered that you don't even realize that its quite obvious that the only person you care about is you. I mean, seriously, picking on a disabled person for admitting they have an illness, isn't that just the lowest you can go?

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 02:43 PM by Holly.

I've heard rumblings she worked closely with the national guard which is where she got experience in dealing with national security and foreign countries (I can't back it up without searching, it was said on TV and could very well be BS).

Obama was constantly on defense as to his inexperience, but now his campaign is using that same argument to attack McCain's VP selection. I don't think it's wise to attack someone else with what is largely considered your weakest attribute. It's the equivalent of a mentally challenged person making fun of someone for having a mentally challenged friend.

Al Gore should quit making movies/guest appearances and run for President. That would fix my voting quandry. lol

I thought this discussion was about how hot the VP was, not why [insert party here] supporters are the scum of [insert country here]. Step away from the personal stuff.


From what I understand about politics, its just trying to choose the best of the possible wrong choices. All I ever hear about is Democrats and Republicans, is that all you have? What about Green Parties, Nationalist, Socialist, Communist, etc. parties?

Sure the parties I named right now seem like the worst examples possible, but there's bound to be a third party out there that's got its **** together. They just don't have the money to compete against the Rep and Demos cause they've got the art of "getting past the campaign spending money limit" mastered.
"Popular" and "well known" aren't good reasons to vote for a person.

One important note *I am not an American*

That out of the way, if I could, I wouldn't vote for either. And as I can't vote I'm not doing any research on any third parties; you guys on the other hand should.

Half the things you guys are talking about are probably being addressed by some third party.

sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, sometimes, nope, and nope. I am not picking on you, merely stating facts and proposing questions. The funny thing is I made no personal attacks, something you can't say with a clear conscious (yet I'm the bad guy?). Your arguments are full of emotion and lack substance (oops!). You only speak of yourself and criticize others for their beliefs. I'm done with this.

lol Palin worked closely with the national guard, what a bunch of bullshit. The national guard goes oversees and someone orders them around over there...that's what McCain's group is talking about, and they're lying to everyone. She has nothing to do with their day to day operations, so that's just another smoke screen. Maybe everyone should do a little research and see what a governor does, instead of getting all your info from people on TV.

One other point, if there was a disaster in Alaska, then Palin would actually be in charge of the national guard, but once again, that's not what the McCain machine is talking about.

Yes, I criticize others for their beliefs just as you have. Once again with the pot calling the kettle black.

And yes, you did make a personal attack with your loaded statement and I'll thank you to not belittle my intelligence. What other intent could you have for saying something so overblown and untrue, criticizing that I even speak of my own shortcomings? To belittle me, that's what. To make me mad, to make me feel small.

My post had plenty of substance for those who are actually openminded and not interested in believing in only what they want to believe. Its not "bad" of me for calling you out and calling it like I see it, that you're a hypocrite, and a closeminded, uninformed, and thoughtless one at that, who can't see the benefit of doing something if it doesn't directly profit them in some way. Saying you're "done" with it is a nice way of bowing out because you are wrong, pure and simple, and can't put up a decent fight any of my relevant statements. Oh, like the ones where I pointed out serious issues like Sarah Palin's previous allegiance to a group who's sole intent was to get Alaska to secede from the US

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 03:32 PM by Holly.

Please don't bring this back. Each time I see you two exchange spiteful words (or trolling) I will warn you.
Now drop the personal stuff and get back at the actual topic at hand. Well.. not that topic... you know what I'm talking about.

It was personal before this even began. To have objectified her in such a way in the first place is completely disrespectful of her position. True, its her own damn fault, but still. THAT'S being discussed, instead of her merits, or lack there of? This is a male-centric site, and its probably what got me revved up in the first place. Its disrespectful to the females present here.

And please, direct your "personal attacks" speech at Harmonica, who felt the need to start it up by criticizing my personal decisions regarding how vocal I choose to be about my illness. I'm all for heated debate. Treating me like my opinion is irrelevant because I tried to relate my experience is unfair.

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 03:39 PM by Holly.

I'm directing it at both of you.
And in case you missed the "male" posts here. We also see what McCain did as degrading.

Opinion is fine, just don't expect to put it up on the internet and not have someone out there attack it.

Standing up for your opinions is also great, but if its only a minority picking at it while a majority is backing it, sometimes turning the other cheek is the better course of action.

I agree that sometimes the cheek turning thing is a the better course of action. But just like I can't expect not to be attacked, neither can anyone here not expect me to not defend myself, or question others just as they have questioned me. And thank you for acknowledging that what McCain did was degrading. Only a sexist could think that recruiting a woman, any woman, would get the female vote.

Noonan, Murphy trash Palin on hot mike: 'It's over

I honestly think Ann Coulter could have been a better pick for them. Scandal free, right wing as they possibly come, and at least we know for a fact that she's as informed as possible about current politics, despite never being involved in them directly. I can't see her saying that she doesn't know what the vice president is supposed to do. Sure, its a scary thought, but seriously. Way less scandal!

In keeping on topic: Yes, Palin is attractive. It makes me wonder if McCain didn't do a little of that on purpose, too, to appeal to fellow sexists in relenting to voting for a female cause "at least she's hot". Maybe not. I won't knock her too badly for doing the pageant stuff. College is expensive and I'm sure she wasn't the same person then as she is now. I doubt the Sarah Palin then had political aspirations, but we all grow up sometime. Least she went to college instead of just doing it for kicks or for the money!

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 04:25 PM by Holly.

Hey now... we have emotions too. We're not just sacks of flesh with a penis attached jeez. Male-centric or not, a lot of the males here share your opinion. Now please if you can, put your walls down. We're all hugs here. :p

You only turn the other cheek if you wanna get slapped.

Wow... owned. I honestly see that as a poor sense of judgement. Why Palin? Even republicans have to agree that there are more qualified WOMEN for the job. I understand picking a woman to undercut Obama, but she could have at least been more qualified for the role of VP or even CiC. My guess is, he just wanted a family-oriented woman that would have the image he wanted. Basically he wanted a female republican Obama. That's how I feel.

This post was last modified: 09-03-2008 04:49 PM by Ricky.