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Yeah I guess, it's hard for me to know what a MacBooks visual power is like since my g5 has 4 gigs of RAM and a GeForce6800 Ultra vid card...

Apple by far. There are tons of great applications for a Mac. Some only for OSX and many that have a Windows version. It just works so well. I always wanted a Mac and I finally bought myself a Macbook recently. I love it. I can run Windows XP on it using Parallels (virtual machine), while still running OSX.

And Windows XP support is ending soon. So soon you will be forced to use Vista. And Vista just completely and utterly sucks.

Oh and I have been using Windows for years. I am the person everyone comes to for help, who can do pretty much anything with any computer. And OSX is just so clean. So simple. So easy. And yet you can do a lot with it if you want to.

I have tons of experience in this field. Unless you want to use every piece of hardware in a mac (bluetooth/iSight, etc.), the hardware won't be of value. So you're paying a premium for the OS. Additionally, there becomes the issue of the NUMEROUS problems with hardware Apple has (whining, batteries, logic board issues).

Then it comes down to the operating system. Mac OS X is a visually appealing operating system, although it lacks a universal UI theme, and it helps with productivity, without having too many useless things such as Compiz-Fusion on Linux. It also has a great integration of applications, and is very nice to develop for. It does have a great security record, although Microsoft has a more efficient record of patching flaws before Apple. The mach_kernel used by Apple in Darwin, the modified BSD kernel, is inherently slow. One only needs to look at process performance to understand that. The NT kernel in Windows has always been renowned as the fastest operating system kernel (faster than Linux).

Vista far from sucks. It's got tons of new features (far more than a warmed over Xp), and is very stable, visually appealing, fast with the right hardware, and overall getting better with compatibility. Apple fanboys are the ones who say differently. Just look at the wikipedia article for "Features new to Windows Vista" to see what I mean. As a realistic person, I've had no trouble on 1 GB of RAM, with a Core 2 Duo, and GMA 950 graphics. And I do everything but gaming on here, (even light CAD work). It's NOT a RAM hog, it just uses everything there to make the system faster, called precaching, but it's not HOGGING the ram.

Anyway, I'd recommend getting a PC, simply not to be locked into proprietary hardware, which gets upgraded a few times a year, and rarely has the cutting edge of technology. The OS is good, but not worth the proprietary lockdown. Plus, Windows is faster, and has a larger range of Applications.

Where is "all of the above?" I run XP and OSX natively with full acceleration on my Dell laptop and get the best of both worlds. The only thing that doesnt work on OSX is suspend mode and my volume buttons.

I see no reason to pick a side.

edit: I just realized the OP and many of these responses have confused the OS with the Hardware. You can run Windows and OSX on an Intel mac or a PC with the right hardware.

The upside to getting a PC is you can have a very fast machine for significantly less money and configure it nearly any way you want. Apple hardware is severely overpriced and unless you spend big bucks to get a tower you are stuck with a mini (one dimm slot, slow laptop hd, integrated video) or an IMac with similar restrictions as the mini but with a screen permanently attached.

*previous owner of a 1.52ghz ppc mini and g4 titanium. Yeah I switched to away from apple.

The hacked OS X suffers from still running a login window app from OS X 10.4.4, as well as major kernel issues on Dual core processors. I know, I was very involved in the project. Hardware support is thinning, and in general, your system has to be almost perfect to get sound/networking/accelerated video working. You have to make sacrifices specifically when designing, unless you get lucky.

No updates, and Leopard could spell the end to the community, now that it's not legal to alter the source of Darwin in v9 like it was in Darwin 8, kernel hacks would technically be illegal. I really wish Apple would let the damn OS run on PCs, and give something to fight Windows with. I know then, I'd definitely dual boot.

I do however have the first Mac Computer if you want to take your luck at that Lol.

Wow, what a terrible analogy. Looks are pretty relative, but if you insist that an Apple is prettier, I'd still rather have a slightly less attractive woman that's more fun and doesn't run off with all of my money, and doesn't mind if I dual boot with Ms. Linux.

I gave the circumstances under which you would want an Apple. Obviously the majority of the population doesn't care enough to switch.

On another point, I agree with sc7 that Vista is a great OS. RAM hog? Maybe, if you compare it to XP. Vista certainly isn't going to run on 256MB. Get a GB or more and you're fine. Who would think that newer software would require better hardware?

Exactly, unused ram is wasted ram. All of the *nixes and even OS X have known this for years, that's why the RAM "appears" used, but as soon as you need it, it's magically available.

I have pictures (on photo paper) of a time when I took 8 of the classic macs and arranged them in a triangle in the parking lot. I then took a bowling ball and smash through them multiple times.

Eventually I broke one open to find signatures of all the people who created the mac on the inside of the case. I saved a chunk for a while but now I have no idea where it is.

Your picture says "classic" on it which makes it a later model. It should be more tan and only have the apple logo at the bottom front right inside of an indented square.

It should be a while before the hacked 10.4.9 for PC is outdated enough for applications not to run. I didn't mean to suggest OSX on standard hardware as your primary OS.

It does prove a good point though - if you buy the right components you can have an extremely fast/stable "Mac" for considerably less than the hardware would cost from Apple. It angers me that Apple does not try to expand their market share with configurations and prices that more people could get behind. I don't like the limited amount of choices that Apple gives. A mini is a great machine for the price but to step up a model to a tower is significantly more money. When I used a real apple regularly it bothered me that I had to pay 130$ every once in a while for what was essentially a service pack to the OS with a new cats name attached.

I wonder why more of the windows hating crowd doesnt switch to Ubuntu instead of Apple? It has many advantages over both windows/osx

You may say it's a terrible analogy but it is true. There have been so many occasions, so many in fact I can't give you a solid number, that I've gotten the blue screen of death while working on a project in Windows and had to back track steps to reacquire the effects I was going for. On my G5, I've never had one crash, there have been a few times that Photoshop crashed but that number falls between 10 and 15 times at most.

The "trendy" yuppie comment was something taken to heart, because in the entertainment business nobody uses Windows when working on a professional and large scale project. You'll either find it all being done on Mac or Linux. Windows is good for 2 things web surfing and playing games.

The average computer user does more than this? I never said Apples don't have their uses... I just said they are unnecessarily expensive for most people's uses, shouldn't be the immediate recommendation for every person.

I can name a few. Lack of driver support. Lack of legal codec support. It's UGLY, even with beryl, gnome is ugly. Although Linux is a great kernel, and the releases are tremendously stable (so are every other OS though), a lot of the open source software, especially at the low level (X Windowing system, Compiz-Fusion, and even Firefox for linux,) are all more unstable then their Windows counterparts. And most of their mac counterparts. OS X has a stable GUI, but Firefox on OS X is anything but stable.

@pizzaturdell

This is the same rhetoric I hear all of the time over on Digg. "OMG ITS TEH BLUE SCREENZ OF DEATH, LOLZORZ!!!111oneoneone"

In the world of NT operating systems, either you are an absolute friggin idiot, or you're full of s***. I've seen the BSOD only twice on NT operating systems, once was using an incompatible scanner on XP, and once was using an incompatible network driver emulator on Vista. I get extremely deep into these things, as I have done 3D graphical C++ and objective C coding on all types of OSes (Win, OS X, OS Classic, Linux, BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, System5, OS/2), as well as CPU platforms (x86, PowerPC, Alpha, Sparc, and ARM). The software I deal with, on a regular basis, including some software I've written that used assembly level code for 3d rendering, is at times far more unstable, and gets far deeper rooted, and yet I've not had the BSOD that you claim regular PC apps give you. For people such as my not so savvy relatives, they've not once seen a BSOD. Stop using references from 1998, because it would only be fair for me to do the same about your OS. (Mac OS 9, anyone?)

On the contrary, I've seen a lot of bugs in my dealing with Linux, specifically on the "unstable" branches, but often these leak into the "distributions", which is why I prefer a bare bones Debian/Slackware/Gentoo over some pre-built graphical installer crap like Ubuntu. I've also seen plenty of kernel panics on Macs, the technological equivalent of a Mac BSOD. I've seen more of these than BSODs, but many of them were my fault, as I was modding a custom kernel of Darwin (in the days where Apple released the source code to let you do so.). Point is, you exaggerate it on the PC, and talk like it doesn't happen on your Mac. The typical response of a Mac fanboy.

I nearly pissed myself when I read that comment. Ever hear of Avid Xpress? Oh, I guess you're not in the industry that much. Avid Xpress accounts still for over 65% of all professional video entertainment. Guess what? 80% of AVID sales are the Windows binary. 76% of Photoshop sales are also on the Windows platform, yet again. I'll give you the audio part, Logic Pro is a heavily used Mac app, and much of the audio industry uses Apple, but not nearly all of the video industry. The science industry also uses PCs almost entirely, as well as CAD, so that's more than "web browsing and gaming".

Excuse me while I go change my pants... (kidding). Linux? LMFAO. Linux has NO professional entertainment editing software. No major publisher produces the necessary software for doing this stuff on Linux. Hell, you can't LEGALLY play a DVD in Linux. You've got to be kidding me, this is such fluff. Codec support also lacks in linux.

That just confirmed the fanboy status. That's the exact typical pompus Mac fanboy response that I always hear. Windows also does graphical editing fine, networks WAY easier than any mac or linux machine, CAD rendering, scientific rendering, photoshop, web design, productivity... I can go on. I can do anything I can do on a Mac on a PC, but not the other way around. The NT kernel of PCs is also far more advanced than the patched up mach_kernel apple still uses (was rumored to replace in leopard, but got shot down). NT supported true pre-emptive multitasking, and protected memory from it's initial design. mach was a berkely project, and was never meant to be much more than that. It's the simple reason why no one besides Apple hosts a web server using OS X server (it's ok for personal networks), because mach handles requests like crap, and it's slow as hell. (Apple.com is only fast because they have a crapload of servers.)

sc7

SC7 I hope you're ready to put your foot in your mouth you smart ass idiot.

Here's proof that Hollywood uses LINUX for animated films.

Disney using Linux for film animation

Do you honestly think big studios use the same programs that Joe Shmo the filmmaker uses to edit films? If you do you're more retarded then I thought. They've got their own programmers developing their own software to run on Linux. So before you speak and act like you're "Mr. I Know Everything Under the Sun about technology because I know C++ and did 3D graphical work for every system but nobody has ever seen my work because I'm really not that good", take the time to make sure you know exactly what you're talking about.

As for AVID it's still around, but with Final Cut Pro HD it's taken somewhat of a hard hit because this isn't 1992 anymore and nobody needs AVID to build them custom editors anymore.

Your cocky comments though are rather funny because it just shows how much of a jackass you are. Ever been in the Sony Pictures building in Culver City before? Do you think they use PCs there? HMMM Oh yeah last time I was there they all use Macs. I'm sure the half assed studios out there that produce VeggieTales use Windows, but anyone that's worked with the big boys knows how things work.

I work in the entertainment field so whatever scientists work on really doesn't concern me at all, but I appreciate the factoid Mr. Hawking.

As for calling me a Mac fanboy that just proves enough right there that you're one of those replica douchebag people that make stupid posts on iMDB acting like they know a thing or two about the entertainment industry. Anyone in the film and animation industry who has worked on both platforms for a few years knows that working on a Mac is superior to Windows on the sole point that the production workflow works a hell of a lot smoother, which saves a substantial amount of money. The only studio I'm not sure about is Film Roman but if you're still not convinced I can get in touch with my friend over at The Simpsons and find out for you, just so I can watch you shove that foot deeper down your throat.

I hope by now you fell off your high horse and realize that someone you thought knew nothing about the entertainment industry (even though they work in it) brought to light that you're nothing but an arrogant tool. At least by the time Monday morning hits all of my buds at work will get a laugh about the pompous forum cool kid that tried to sound educated about the business because he surfs Digg! So in a sad way you'll be kind of famous at the studio!

Kudos to you my friend!

-Pizzaturdell

One warning... keep this discussion/debate civilized or it will be locked. There is no reason for personal attacks, and further instances will not be tolerated.