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The Blu-ray Disc Association says that through November 24, over 2.7 million players have been sold, but it did not break down how many of those were Playstation 3 consoles, reports Video Business.

The trade publication reports that abour two million PS3 units were sold through October, and at least 300,000 were sold last month with the advent of a price cut and an even lower-priced PS3 model.

The statement comes a short while after the HD DVD Promotional Group gave its latest sales figure of 750,000 HD DVD players sold. The Toshiba-fronted format has always held the price advantage, with players that are now permanently marked at under $200, more than half of the cheapest Blu-ray player.

Many consider this holiday season to be the beginning of the final decision over format dominance. According to Nielsen Videoscan, over the holiday kick-off Thanksgiving week, Blu-ray players outsold HD DVD by a margin of 3-to-1.

source

I have a question. Isn't the Xbox360 HD DVD add-on included in the HD DVD numbers? I mean people make a stink at how the PS3 is added into the overall Blu Ray players sold, so I was just wondering. I'm sure it is, so I guess anyone's complain about consoles being added is moot.

The 360 add-on is a fully fledged HD-DVD player in my view, just adapted for use through the console.

It isn't a console in itself.

Yeah, but the HD DVD add on obviously has to have the 360 to run, because it's using it's graphics chip and such, but I still think that's counted in the over-all HD DVD numbers.

after writing the above I found this click here for link/source which tells that the over-all HD DVD player count has the Xbox360's add-on included in the numbers too. So no one is being left out.

yes the 360 has to be owned to have it but the player isn't the console itself, you have to buy it if you want to watch hd-dvds just like you would an average player.

you are totally correct. I think some people are able to hook the HD DVD add-on up to a windows-based computer and use it also, just like you hook it up to the 360.

Yes, I believe that a simple change could adapt it.

I think the reason, gft, is that anyone who buys the HD-DVD add on for 360 will intend to use it for movie playback. There are many people I know who have purchased a PS3, but do not watch Blu-ray movies.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is.  All I was asking originally was if the add-on was in the over-all numbers as well, and I actually answered my own question, so what the 360 add-on has to do with those users buying specifically for movie playback has to do with anything isn't clear to me.  I think Blu Ray movies are still selling either 2:1 or 3:1 over HD DVD.

Have you been able to find documentation about how HD DVD disc are physically different from DVD when it comes to movies other than the way the information is put on them?

beat me to it

And I'm not sure why you're defending the Blu-ray format to death. You had mentioned that people make a big deal of the PS3 being included, and not so for the 360 add-on. I had then gone on to state my reasoning that most HD-DVD player add-ons were definitely purchased for movies, while many Blu-ray drives of PS3 aren't used for Blu-ray movies. I didn't mention anything about sales (look outside of America, too, by the way), so your citing of facts is defending something I never argued.

Again with the HD-DVD storage thing, I am fully aware the differences between DVD and HD-DVD aren't as significant as vs. Blu-ray, and they allow them to be manufactured from the same plant. I was refuting your claim that it's DVD 1.5, and "so similar". The technology is a full generation progression of a previous format, just building off previous technologies, and adding on capacity and use of a blue laser. The only difference with Blu-ray is that it's completely different, which does not mean anything to the claim of superiority or justification of production cost. Just because HD-DVD is built off similar tech does not allow you to claim that HD-DVD should be cheaper than Blu-ray discs to produce without proper production research.

My reasoning for Blu-ray outselling HD-DVD besides PS3?
Blu-ray is viewed as superior by movie enthusiasts due to it's 7.1 PCM, which trumps the additional special features HD-DVD gets. The general public doesn't care about HD movies, just like I don't yet. Most, including myself, are satisfied with DVD on 480p, or in my case (when watching movies in my bedroom), even 480i. HD-DVD would likely be more adopted by the general public if they were ready, but the enthusiasts want blu-ray. My guess is that we'll have dual formats that will never reach full popularity like DVD did, and DVD will continue to be dominant format (even with the digital lockout, which DVD will still work fine on), until the internet backbone gets ready for downloads, which will be in HD. Why? First you need an HDTV, second, the jump isn't as significant as VHS to DVD. Additionally, only enthusiasts can see the SIGNIFICANT differences, and really care to pay all of the equipment costs.

Amen to that. I hate like I'm being forced to pick one of the two, or either one for that matter. For movies there's nothing wrong with DVDs in my opinion and don't have any problem with them not being HD.

From a technological and computer stand point I can see why either format might be needed and why Blu-ray would probably come out on top here (if HD-DVDs don't reach the 51GB I've heard about).

sc7, I defend Blu Ray in here, because very few others will.

How many people, including yourself get bent out of shape when the Blu Ray player numbers come out, and you tell everyone that they should look at the standalone player numbers instead. The PS3 is a full-fledged Blu Ray Player and it should be counted in the overall numbers. Whereas the 360's add-on can not run on it's own, it needs the Xbox360 or a PC to even run, but I don't hear yourself or anyone else asking why those numbers are including in the HD DVD count.

It's too bad we can't have an honest discussion about this without bashing Blu Ray. If someone in the coming months puts up a sourced thread about how HD DVD is in the lead, I won't come on here and bash the format, or decide I'll talk about something totally different to get off topic, I'll give HD DVD it's props.

I think if members do a little searching on here, they'll find that I 100% backed HD DVD when this format war started, but after a while I couldn't figure out why they weren't advertising themselves and trying to get market share. I thought they'd given up before the fight had barely started.

I won't back anyone by default, and the longer this "war" goes on the closer HD DVD and Blu Ray players will get, and that's HD DVD's fault. They had everything in their favor, and up to this point, they've squandered it.

I don't understand any of your comments.  What does a DVD and HD DVD disc being so similar in composition have anything to do with the superiority of Blu Ray over HD DVD?  If anything, I would think that would SUPPORT the idea that HD DVD is better... it's cheaper to produce (according to your logic) and gives virtually the same benefits as Blu Ray.  

You switched from HD DVD camp to Blu Ray camp because you didn't think HD DVD was marketing?  Are you serious?  There are sooooo many different ways of marketing.  Let's see... how about you eat your R&D costs so that you can sell your player for HALF the price of the competition?  That's marketing.  What about including 5 bonus movies with the purchase of any player?  That's marketing (which Sony has copied).  USUALLY, a company markets by running advertisements non-stop, sure.  The HD DVD backers just chose to give that money instead to the consumer in price drops and bonuses, in an effort to increase market share that way.  I think I would prefer it that way.  Of course, this is based on your comment that HD DVD doesn't run advertisements.  If you discount the PS3 ads (which do not push Blu Ray), I've seen more HD DVD advertisements that Blu Ray.  In fact, how has Sony "taken this format war seriously" other than to release their PS3 with a Blu Ray player?

I read your third paragraph a few times, and I don't understand the point you were trying to get across.

EDIT: You edited your thread, but I guess my comments are still pretty relevant.

Last bit, then I go to work. Just because someone else doesn't defend something means that you should? Bad logic.

The reason people do not like PS3 numbers counting in the overall is that the majority of people that buy a PS3 (over 50%) do not even know what a Blu Ray disc is, much less know what they are. On the other hand, the HD DVD add-on is purchased SOLEY for someone to be able to play HD DVDs. NOBODY WOULD BUY IT if they were not going to use it to play HD DVDs. Thus, they should be counted as players, because they take the place of players as the owner will use them instead of a standalone, at least for a while. The point is, you KNOW they will use it, otherwise they would not purchase it. Again, the PS3 could have been purchased for a number of reasons, which is why it shouldn't be counted in the same manner. Yes, it CAN play Blu Ray discs by itself, but MANY PS3's have never played one because the people do not know or do not care! And again, everyone that has purchased the HD DVD addon, which cannot by itself play HD DVDs, is almost certain to be purchasing HD DVD's to watch.

I edit my post before you wrote yours.

When the format war started HD DVD players were $499, and yet I saw the HD DVD group doing very little to promote themselves or even try to grab a lead.  If they were that unambitious then, why would I support them?  Do I really want a standard that even the backers "act" lack luster about?

You may not understand some of my comments or agree with them, but at least I don't post things like this to throw everyone off the topic we're talking about. Which was in the Blu-ray still dominating HD DVD and had nothing to do with what anyone was discussing.

I was the one who made the point originally and he just made it clear..?

At the point made above by gf, here in England I have barely seen any form of Blu-ray advertisement yet I have came across several more HD-DVD advertisements.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,15...X1K0000532

Two million were PS3s

Therefore, the HD-DVD sold more stand-alone (750,000)

See, that's where you are missing the point.  HD DVD WAS marketing by pricing their system at HALF the price of the competition.  The R&D costs to develop the product would have been similar to Blu Ray, but Toshiba PURPOSELY cut their prices to fight their side of the format war.  My point still stands, also, that I have no idea what marketing you've seen out of Sony, except to cram a Blu Ray player in their PS3 and then package a movie to increase interest in the format, and follow the lead of Toshiba by offering 5 Blu Ray discs with player purchases.  In other words, I'm not asking why you are AGAINST HD DVD, I'm asking why you are FOR Blu Ray.  I really do not know how to make my questions more clear.

This is at least the second time you've mentioned it, so I'm going to assume that you find it as a major offense.  You should be able to tell by my wording that I never meant to pull the conversation off topic (and didn't).  I simply found a good deal on a product that was actively being discussed in the thread, and as an aside, I mentioned it for those interested.  Deals like that are short lived and limited in scope for a site like this, so it did not deserve its own thread.  However, where better to post it, then in the most active post (at the time) regarding that type of product?  People had recently mentioned an interest in purchasing them, and so I thought it might be helpful.  Do you mind if I ask why it bothers you so much?

EDIT: I would also like to add this, to give context to my postings for those just viewing. It might seems like I am an HD DVD "fanboy", when in fact I am not. I do favor that format, but I'm not exclusive either. I just purchased 4 Blu Ray movies yesterday, in fact. I have a standalone player (not a PS3). I bought it to be futureproofed and to be able to watch a movie in HD even if it is not released on HD DVD. I just really dislike Sony due to many of their policies and treatment of their customers, along with their insistence of proprietary formats ever since the whole Betamax fiasco. My reasonings are not over minor design differences or slight superiority in minor areas, as both deliver the same general benefits over standard DVD, but at least my reasonings are well defined and understandable.

If next week the media war is over and HD DVD wins, then I will go out and pick one up.  I am the type of individual that enjoys the best quality picture and sound I can out of my movies, because I personally am a movie buff.  I will not purchase either a HD DVD or Blu Ray player until something happens on either side of the fence.

I don't hate either format, but I'm not going to disparage one just because someone else is saying how much they like it.  It seems like whenever we have these conversations it's less about actual information and proof people can site and more about how much we can bash one format or the other.  If anyone has proof one way or the other then cool, post it, but personal feelings are just that, and can't be substituted for proof or fact.

hope this doesnt turn into dvd/divx or vhs/beta

i like the dual format players, so none of the early adopters get screwed,

i also am for peace in the middle east so what do i know