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Sure, you may be well aware of the fact that last week's 2.1 firmware update for the PlayStation 3 gifted the console with support for the ubiquitous DivX video codec, but did you also know that nestled deep within the update was a new space-faring music visualizer? Seen in motion through the magic of YouTube, it's an incredibly nifty way to relax to those newly unwrapped CDs, but it also makes us wax nostalgic and wonder whatever happened to those grade school dreams of becoming astronauts when we grew up.

The new tool was created by Q-Games, who developed the terrifically fun PSN downloadable PixelJunk Racers, and the studios' PR manager Duncan Flett tells Gamasutra that the project went through a number of changes prior to release, including an initial stint as the boot sequence for Sony's console. Also interesting is that the visualizer uses texture data lifted from the NASA Blue Marble project, making this one of the neatest uses of science since the application of baking soda to vinegar.

Full disclosure: This writer did, in fact, pen stories for Gamasutra in a previous life before his current tour of duty on board the starship Joystiq.

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It's nice, but I think Sony should stop putting in small things like this, until they get the one killer feature they really need, in game XMB. I know a lot of fans are disgruntled that they're told to "wait" for it, when firmware updates with this stuff are constantly being released. Having to quit to get a message from a buddy who wants to play the same game online is NOT ok.

Just my $0.02.

PS. I don't even think it has to be full XMB in game, even just a way to at least check updates from your PSN account, like friends online, etc. Perhaps, an auto updating system like XBL, where it updates when you put it in, even for single player, rather than having to manually download it through the MP channel for fixes that apply to the single player game.
It looks like a nifty little feature, I like it Smile But like sc7 said, I'm surprised there's no in-game XMB yet

TheNewYearsFrog Wrote:
It looks like a nifty little feature, I like it Smile But like sc7 said, I'm surprised there's no in-game XMB yet


Indeed, it's certainly cool, but Sony has a feature everyone wants, is critical to their online strategy, and it's still not out yet. Priorities are a little screwed up at Sony, no? I know full well something like in game XMB is not that hard to implement. (Especially since PS3's OS takes ~4.33x the processing power in game as compared to the 360.

love the song. but this (pretty) visualizer seems more like a screen saver than anything else.

sc7 Wrote:
Especially since PS3's OS takes ~4.33x the processing power in game as compared to the 360.


Really, just for the OS? And does just thread through one of the individual CELL cores, or? Since PlayStation 3 has a CPU built to handle several tasks at once, it's another remarkable reason that this has yet to come into play.

TheNewYearsFrog Wrote:

sc7 Wrote:
Especially since PS3's OS takes ~4.33x the processing power in game as compared to the 360.


Really, just for the OS? And does just thread through one of the individual CELL cores, or? Since PlayStation 3 has a CPU built to handle several tasks at once, it's another remarkable reason that this has yet to come into play.


Yes, if I get the time, I'll put out my sources, but here's what I know. The Xbox 360 Operating System (a modified version of the Windows 2000 NT 5.0 kernel), reserves about 3% of the general processing power of the machine to run the in game dashboard, as well as all the behind the screens processing in game.

The PS3, the Cell processor is 1 PPU, and 7 SPUs, as most have been informed. 1 SPU is disabled at the factory because they have such a high defective yield on SPUs. (Hence, your PS3 DOES have the 8th core, whether it's actually working, but disabled, or plain broken, you'll likely never know.). From there, 1 entire SPU is reserved in game for the system software (so when you press the PS button, the black screen with options comes up). That SPU is valued to 13% of the "raw" processing power, although I'd argue the only gaming power the Cell really has is it's 1 PowerPC PPU (same specs as one of the 360's 3 PPUs). So, in essence, it takes 13% of the processing "power", but doesn't siphon off as much as it sounds. Quite impressive that Sony runs the background OS on the SPU entirely. Of course, when the user is running on the full ground XMB, or using the media features of the XMB, the Cell is then running that code natively on the PPU, since it's quicker, and not reserved for anything else.

it's cool seeing free stuff like this. it has no real function but to look nice, and it does that pretty good.

gft77 Wrote:
it's cool seeing free stuff like this.  it has no real function but to look nice, and it does that pretty good.


But we're debating at what cost? Surely you have to understand some PS3 owners see all these updates, but still don't get the things they want.

sc7 Wrote:

gft77 Wrote:
it's cool seeing free stuff like this.  it has no real function but to look nice, and it does that pretty good.


But we're debating at what cost?  Surely you have to understand some PS3 owners see all these updates, but still don't get the things they want.


I'll break this down into a 2 part answer.

1.  "But we're debating at what cost?" It's a screensaver, so it really doesn't matter how much CPU it's using or anything else, because your not going to have it running in the back ground while playing a game, so that point is moot.  

2.  "Surely you have to understand some PS3 owners see all these updates, but still don't get the things they want."  Name me a system that has everything the owners actually want.  You'll never give everyone everything, but when you get an update and something free with it, then you just take it, use it or not, but complaining about free stuff you don't have to use just seems a little odd.

updates are always free. the problem is theyre wasting their time and efforts on giving us stuff that doesnt have much importance or improve the gaming experience.

gft77 Wrote:
I'll break this down into a 2 part answer.

1.  "But we're debating at what cost?" It's a screensaver, so it really doesn't matter how much CPU it's using or anything else, because your not going to have it running in the back ground while playing a game, so that point is moot.  

2.  "Surely you have to understand some PS3 owners see all these updates, but still don't get the things they want."  Name me a system that has everything the owners actually want.  You'll never give everyone everything, but when you get an update and something free with it, then you just take it, use it or not, but complaining about free stuff you don't have to use just seems a little odd.


Wow, shows how much you actually read/comprehended what I posted...

1. Look at where you quoted me from. When I said "at what cost", I was CLEARLY referring to the wasted time Sony spent on this. I wasn't talking about resources, ffs, I write software for a living, give me a break, I know what the hell this does. At what cost was referring to the time they wasted on this feature, which could have been put towards developing a much more useful feature.

2. Damn right, no system has everything I want. God knows, the Wii is lacking in certain areas (decent online), while the 360s software, IMHO, is currently the best, but still has gripes here and there. However, no one wanted a space visualizer, so how about Sony works more to appease the needs/wants of users before they throw this crap in. In game XMB is a big deal, and a critical component to a successful online strategy. I can't tell you how many times I quit to the XMB after finishing Resistance, only to find somtimes 5+ messages saying "Hey, you playin resistance? wanna play?", and by that time, they may already be offline, and if not, they're probably in their game. It's a lot easier to access messages from in game, and, especially, see if someone else is playing that game online (another nice 360 feature, see what other gamers are playing). Sure, Sony's updates have offered tremendous improvements on the PS3's system software, and if they keep it up, it will be great. But something as critical as in game XMB for a system that's looking to topple it's competetor's number one online system really is important, wanted by the community a lot, and is much more significant than not having everything I want. DivX, yes that's a small qualm, but in game XMB is a huge detrement, and something that should be solved, so don't pin that as a small gripe only a few want.

The bottom line, my point is, I would be aggrivated, as a lot of other vocal PS3 owners on the internet are, that Sony wasted development resources on this largely useless feature, and still, the critcal online component that largely everyone wants isn't here yet, and we're being told to "wait for it". I don't find it absurd to complain about free things at all, when the things you truely want/need for a good experience are still missing.

sc7 Wrote:
Wow, shows how much you actually read/comprehended what I posted...


Your probably right, I don't understand why a free "screen saver" starts a conversation on PS3 OS processioning power utilization.

I do agree this might not be what some people wanted, but I also don't think Sony put anything on the back burner to give PS3 owners this music visualizer.

gft77 Wrote:

sc7 Wrote:
Wow, shows how much you actually read/comprehended what I posted...


Your probably right, I don't understand why a free "screen saver" starts a conversation on PS3 OS processioning power utilization.

I do agree this might not be what some people wanted, but I also don't think Sony put anything on the back burner to give PS3 owners this music visualizer.


Actually, it was because I referred to the in game XMB, and how the OS software is currently designed to properly handle it. (Although, upon further consideration, I'm not sure how well the SPUs can interact with the PPU to "halt" the game progress, or as the PS button is pressed, the SPU would have to communicate to the PPU at the least, to give the game the pause command.). Anyway, I wasn't saying the PS3 OS utilizes power less efficiently, rather, that it has a whole 3.2 GHz SPU to assist it.

You may be right about the visualizer, but these things are more complex than they look. In any case, I didn't mean to pick a fight with anyone, and I apologize if my tone came off wrong.

Cheers, and here's to more quality debating,
sc7

So sc7, would something along the lines of an in-game XMB be difficult to code into the OS, or is this something straightforward? I'd love to talk code with you sometime you're free.

TheNewYearsFrog Wrote:
So sc7, would something along the lines of an in-game XMB be difficult to code into the OS, or is this something straightforward? I'd love to talk code with you sometime you're free.


Ah, I love to talk code, ask me any time, I'll be glad to discuss.

Anyway, in game XMB is theoretically tougher for the PS3 because of the way it uses the Cell. I'll start by saying that it's usually not a difficult feature to code at all, depending on how deep you want to let it go. Look at the Xbox 360, it was there from the start, and it's a limited function of what you could do at the dashboard. Obviously, it would be in Sony's best interest if the entire XMB wasn't included (do I need access to preferences, videos, and photos in game? No, just music and Playstation Network). Therefore, they'd only need to code an extension to the XMB. Now, I'm not sure how the XMB is configured in their software, but they way they pop new things into the XMB, I'm going to assume it's some sort of resource list file that links to all of the functions, and they could easily create a specific different list for the in game mode, so that only the desired functions are there.

Now, the Xbox 360 was so easy to code, because the 360's CPU has 3 PPUs, or "General Purpose" cores, (why many argue the point the 360 is "better for gaming"). This leads me to an aspect many debating the subject overlook, and fail to understand the complexity. When you press the dashboard button on the 360, the background game dims, and either freezes or pauses. For all intents and purposes, because it was a built in feature of the console (making it easier), I'm going to say it's an entirely different command the game gets from either pause or a CPU freeze, and rather, that's up to the developer. For the PS3, since games are already out with no such feature (actually, when you press the PS button, I believe the game continues to play). If not, probably the PS3's largest hurdle is getting the screen to dim and the game to either freeze, or get the pause command and display the pause menu wherever it is. (Could be sticky with online modes).

To the point as to why this is so much harder on the PS3 than the Wii or 360 would and is, is because direct communication from an SPU to a PPU isn't easy. That may be one of the reasons I know it doesn't freeze PS2 mode (doesn't interact directly with the Emotion Engine), (It will, in the end, be like 360 is with Xbox games, dashboard unavailable). But the main part Sony may have to tinker with is the SPU having to "interact" directly, with code running in the PPU, and being able, essentially, for the SPU to directly control whatever is going on in the PPU. (I read somewhere such is routed through the RSX, which would REALLY be tricky).

And I think this is why some people claim the PS3 is convoluted to develop for, 3 PPU cores are undoubtedly easier to have "intercommunication", than when you have specialized cores. Many also claim because the 360's ram is combined (ableit giving more overall memory), that it bottlenecks compared to how the PS3 has it split.

To conclude, it's more difficult to code, but not neccisarily impossible. The idea of an in game XMB is easy, but it's the PS3's hardware which greatly complicates the design of such a feature. That said, it's nothing compared to writing a game that utilizes all SPUs directly, as they'd all have to, at some point, communicate with code running in the PPU.

sc7

That was a really good read, thanks sc7. I don't understand all of it, but I do understand the points. You are a really interesting person, I must say! Smile

So when developers claim that PS3 is "difficult to code for", this is what they are referring to?

TheNewYearsFrog Wrote:
That was a really good read, thanks sc7. I don't understand all of it, but I do understand the points. You are a really interesting person, I must say! Smile

So when developers claim that PS3 is "difficult to code for", this is what they are referring to?


Yea, a lot of stuff I mentioned is available on wikipedia too.
For some clarity
PPU - generalPurpose Processing Unit
SPU - Specialized Processing Unit
RSX - Sony/nVidia's "Reality Synthesizer" GPU

This is exactly one example of what they're talking about. The 360 is built much like a PC, and that's why it's so easy to max out. I've been able to access documentation for the PS3, and the more I read, the more of a nightmare it really is. That said, it's a powerful machine, just convoluted, unfortunately, to max out the hardware, it would cost so much that a game would have to have a 100% attach rate for the cost to break even.

One of the most "hard" things to do is make up for the weak RSX by using the SPUs. The RSX is undoubtedly weaker than the Xeneos (no 10 mb eDram (which yields "resource free" 2xAA), and no unified shader architecture (only discrete)). So the thing with the PS3 is that Sony wants devs to render textures on the SPUs, and push them through the RSX (because AA and shading on the RSX takes many resources the Xeneos can breeze through) (hence, denser textures on 360).

The problem with this is that they MUST use the SPUs, because the one PPU needs to run the game, as the 360 has 3 to do that, plus a strong GPU to process the graphics.

Bottom line, if PS3 doesn't use the SPUs well, it will always be inferior to a 360 counterpart. The 360 has a stronger GPU, as well as a stronger PPU architecture.

PS3 is not only difficult, but expensive to design for. However, when done well, it could have an insane result.

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